Comments on: More on the “McDonald’s Incident” http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/ Mon, 06 Sep 2010 04:48:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: RicoBoby http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2784 RicoBoby Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:11:47 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2784 http://www.chinese.net.nz/bbs/thread-131028-1-1.html http://www.chinese.net.nz/bbs/thread-131028-1-1.html

]]> By: seamus http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2769 seamus Sat, 07 Jun 2008 23:14:17 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2769 Rico, I don't have the time or the inclination to get into a debate with you here. I'm not that bored. However, I have a question for you that you may find interesting. You say a westerner could never "understand Chinese culture" even if they were born in China and lived there their whole lives. My question is this: Can a Uigur "understand Chinese culture"? Can a Tibetan? A Hui? A Hakka? Rico, I don’t have the time or the inclination to get into a debate with you here. I’m not that bored.

However, I have a question for you that you may find interesting.

You say a westerner could never “understand Chinese culture” even if they were born in China and lived there their whole lives. My question is this:

Can a Uigur “understand Chinese culture”?

Can a Tibetan?

A Hui?

A Hakka?

]]> By: RicoBoby http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2768 RicoBoby Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:26:44 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2768 真是佩服版主，不辞劳苦的翻译这些鸡毛蒜皮，小孩子打嘴仗的东西，也不知道新西兰到底有多少像你这样有好的汉语底子（的Kiwi)，但却不是致力于消除种族民族隔阂，反而放大它们的人。 其实网上有很多好的华人写的帖子，很有内涵和深度，也很有争议，你为什么纠偏挑那些在你看来很暴力的东西呢？不是自己找不开心么，还弄得看过的大部分华人也不开心。 坦率的讲，看了你的不少论述。很想很想知道你开这个论坛想说明什么问题？什么观点？什么结论？你自己个人的人生观和世界观到底是什么？甚至你长什么样？ 这里我也可以给你谈一下我的一些随想： 首先我觉得语言壁垒是很大的问题。你可能是一个很有趣的例子，因为绝大部分西方人都懒得去学东方语言，不去笑话别的语言发音就不错了。在学习第二语言的过程其实很痛苦，尤其对很爱面子怕出错的华人再加上有限的听说环境。更倒霉的是在工作环境中如果遇到说不清的东西，自己觉得自己都和傻子一样。 其次，文化上的壁垒，你可能学了汉语，但你可能不知道汉文化； 或许你知道汉文化，你不明白汉文化。没有办法的，并不是你去过几趟中国，住上几个月，看看人们身上的文化衫就明白的，就算你去中国住下半辈子，你还是不会明白，因为你上半辈子没在那；就算你生在那，你不是黄皮肤黑眼睛照样不明白。就像给猫喂惯羊肝你让它喜欢米饭它不明白。 不明白是不是就不交流？不。 怎么交流，得有些前提，一，承认我们都是人，喜怒哀乐，七情六欲，明白这一点不难。第二，承认我们谁不比谁傻，谁不比谁聪明，谁不比是低等。这一点我发现对西方人很难（嘴上不说，心里是这样想的）。原因我觉得这和西方科技领先于道德有很大关系。一些核心的人类道德不存在于西方社会，基督教式的道德和其他宗教一样其实是很无力甚至更鼓励虚伪的。第三，承认我们都是动物，都会为地盘，生存空间而打斗，过去如此，现在如此，将来如此。第四，世界的生存空间资源是有限的，现在的西方令人羡慕的文明其实是以对世界资源的超乎想象的消耗为代价的。四五两点出来的结论就是打斗会越来越残酷。第六，人性的弱点是会上瘾的。比如人如果不勤劳的工作，就会越来越懒。第七，世界的事情是有因果关系的（不是报应），果是一定不会发生在因之前的，所谓世界上没有无缘无故的爱，也没有无缘无故的恨。能否找到一个果的因说不定，很简单，人的生命是有限的，有些东西时间跨度大，或者有别的原因没有记录下来，这个因可能永远找不到。 这些条件都是互相矛盾的，怎么做的到不是一般人能领悟的。 作为一个中国人，而且是在新西兰生活了5年的移民。我觉得最近国际和中国发生的这些重大事件对我看待西方文明产生了很大的变化（我相信很多华人都会有这个变化）。没出国之前，可以这样说，我向往西方的民主，人权，科技。我认为西方的崛起和这些有直接关系。而且我过去做的假定是西方模式是人类社会的解决之道，西方人对这个世界有更深的理解，更道德。共产党政府不人道而且愚民，人民乐意被愚，奴性十足。 但出国，看了新闻，和人聊了，才发现西方普通老百姓很无知，也不求知，尤其是历史（当然你除外）。其实想想也不难理解，胜者往往也不会反思，勤思考的人往往是弱者。老百姓其实也是被社会的政治精英和经济精英们骗着养着，还自以为道德的活着。 过去还认为共产党马克思说的资本主义的原始阶段是每个毛孔都流着罪恶的血是说教。现在觉得是真的，原始资本主义的血汗工厂现在不存在了，到哪了？ 都到国外了。隔了一道受美国保护的国界，眼不见未净。还可以道德的说三道四。经济精英在发展中国家赚着不义之财，拿回来养着自己国家不爱上班的人民，还指责这些可怜国家的人们工作太卖力，抢了自家慵懒人民的饭碗，还同时抱怨挤出来的牛奶有毒，不好喝。多虚伪。 没人想要你买中国的便宜货。也没有中国人离了外国货活不下去。当初中国自己自足的时候，是哪个英国鬼子用鸦片撬开中国的门，军舰都打到人家门口了，华人与狗不得入内牌子都挂在人家门拴上了。 其实，这些历史对中国人来说影响极大。绝大多数中国人都不愿意去想。更多的人差不多都忘了而且开始拥抱西方了。直到最近的CNN的一个猪头主播的贸易逆差之词让我想起鸦片战争，更让我确信鬼子的后代后继有人，强盗终归是强盗。最可怕的是这是不是第三次鸦片大战的开始？美国开始转嫁自己的经济问题？ 再一个就是西藏，英国杀藏人没有几个kiwi知道，CIA 和 NED 背后支持藏独，训练恐怖分子也是在达赖的和平奖后才解密的给媒体自由的西方社会，其实，中国人民早都知道了。达赖的父亲不希望分裂西藏最后被毒死。西藏的佛教其实很愚昧也没人想知道，寺人轮奸小孩再送去出家，藏人吃达赖的屎治病，把人点天灯。达赖是日本奥姆真理教主的师傅也没人想知道。达赖年薪16万美金。 可以肯定的是，如果西藏独立，一定是英美的傀儡，现在不会比印度好到哪去。何况美国自己都没把西藏独立当回事，藏独顶多是一把它打人的枪。 现在看起来诺贝尔奖简直就是个笑话。 结论就是如果你觉得中国人暴力，或者愚昧，别奇怪，不是基因问题。 是被人欺负怕了，傻了，疯了，脑损伤，得有点时间康复。面对一个疯子，你知道是你的祖先把他逼疯的，你是该讽刺他的疯傻之相，还是该帮助他呢？ 真是佩服版主，不辞劳苦的翻译这些鸡毛蒜皮，小孩子打嘴仗的东西，也不知道新西兰到底有多少像你这样有好的汉语底子（的Kiwi)，但却不是致力于消除种族民族隔阂，反而放大它们的人。
其实网上有很多好的华人写的帖子，很有内涵和深度，也很有争议，你为什么纠偏挑那些在你看来很暴力的东西呢？不是自己找不开心么，还弄得看过的大部分华人也不开心。
坦率的讲，看了你的不少论述。很想很想知道你开这个论坛想说明什么问题？什么观点？什么结论？你自己个人的人生观和世界观到底是什么？甚至你长什么样？
这里我也可以给你谈一下我的一些随想：
首先我觉得语言壁垒是很大的问题。你可能是一个很有趣的例子，因为绝大部分西方人都懒得去学东方语言，不去笑话别的语言发音就不错了。在学习第二语言的过程其实很痛苦，尤其对很爱面子怕出错的华人再加上有限的听说环境。更倒霉的是在工作环境中如果遇到说不清的东西，自己觉得自己都和傻子一样。
其次，文化上的壁垒，你可能学了汉语，但你可能不知道汉文化； 或许你知道汉文化，你不明白汉文化。没有办法的，并不是你去过几趟中国，住上几个月，看看人们身上的文化衫就明白的，就算你去中国住下半辈子，你还是不会明白，因为你上半辈子没在那；就算你生在那，你不是黄皮肤黑眼睛照样不明白。就像给猫喂惯羊肝你让它喜欢米饭它不明白。
不明白是不是就不交流？不。 怎么交流，得有些前提，一，承认我们都是人，喜怒哀乐，七情六欲，明白这一点不难。第二，承认我们谁不比谁傻，谁不比谁聪明，谁不比是低等。这一点我发现对西方人很难（嘴上不说，心里是这样想的）。原因我觉得这和西方科技领先于道德有很大关系。一些核心的人类道德不存在于西方社会，基督教式的道德和其他宗教一样其实是很无力甚至更鼓励虚伪的。第三，承认我们都是动物，都会为地盘，生存空间而打斗，过去如此，现在如此，将来如此。第四，世界的生存空间资源是有限的，现在的西方令人羡慕的文明其实是以对世界资源的超乎想象的消耗为代价的。四五两点出来的结论就是打斗会越来越残酷。第六，人性的弱点是会上瘾的。比如人如果不勤劳的工作，就会越来越懒。第七，世界的事情是有因果关系的（不是报应），果是一定不会发生在因之前的，所谓世界上没有无缘无故的爱，也没有无缘无故的恨。能否找到一个果的因说不定，很简单，人的生命是有限的，有些东西时间跨度大，或者有别的原因没有记录下来，这个因可能永远找不到。
这些条件都是互相矛盾的，怎么做的到不是一般人能领悟的。

作为一个中国人，而且是在新西兰生活了5年的移民。我觉得最近国际和中国发生的这些重大事件对我看待西方文明产生了很大的变化（我相信很多华人都会有这个变化）。没出国之前，可以这样说，我向往西方的民主，人权，科技。我认为西方的崛起和这些有直接关系。而且我过去做的假定是西方模式是人类社会的解决之道，西方人对这个世界有更深的理解，更道德。共产党政府不人道而且愚民，人民乐意被愚，奴性十足。

但出国，看了新闻，和人聊了，才发现西方普通老百姓很无知，也不求知，尤其是历史（当然你除外）。其实想想也不难理解，胜者往往也不会反思，勤思考的人往往是弱者。老百姓其实也是被社会的政治精英和经济精英们骗着养着，还自以为道德的活着。

过去还认为共产党马克思说的资本主义的原始阶段是每个毛孔都流着罪恶的血是说教。现在觉得是真的，原始资本主义的血汗工厂现在不存在了，到哪了？ 都到国外了。隔了一道受美国保护的国界，眼不见未净。还可以道德的说三道四。经济精英在发展中国家赚着不义之财，拿回来养着自己国家不爱上班的人民，还指责这些可怜国家的人们工作太卖力，抢了自家慵懒人民的饭碗，还同时抱怨挤出来的牛奶有毒，不好喝。多虚伪。

没人想要你买中国的便宜货。也没有中国人离了外国货活不下去。当初中国自己自足的时候，是哪个英国鬼子用鸦片撬开中国的门，军舰都打到人家门口了，华人与狗不得入内牌子都挂在人家门拴上了。
其实，这些历史对中国人来说影响极大。绝大多数中国人都不愿意去想。更多的人差不多都忘了而且开始拥抱西方了。直到最近的CNN的一个猪头主播的贸易逆差之词让我想起鸦片战争，更让我确信鬼子的后代后继有人，强盗终归是强盗。最可怕的是这是不是第三次鸦片大战的开始？美国开始转嫁自己的经济问题？

再一个就是西藏，英国杀藏人没有几个kiwi知道，CIA 和 NED 背后支持藏独，训练恐怖分子也是在达赖的和平奖后才解密的给媒体自由的西方社会，其实，中国人民早都知道了。达赖的父亲不希望分裂西藏最后被毒死。西藏的佛教其实很愚昧也没人想知道，寺人轮奸小孩再送去出家，藏人吃达赖的屎治病，把人点天灯。达赖是日本奥姆真理教主的师傅也没人想知道。达赖年薪16万美金。

可以肯定的是，如果西藏独立，一定是英美的傀儡，现在不会比印度好到哪去。何况美国自己都没把西藏独立当回事，藏独顶多是一把它打人的枪。 现在看起来诺贝尔奖简直就是个笑话。

结论就是如果你觉得中国人暴力，或者愚昧，别奇怪，不是基因问题。 是被人欺负怕了，傻了，疯了，脑损伤，得有点时间康复。面对一个疯子，你知道是你的祖先把他逼疯的，你是该讽刺他的疯傻之相，还是该帮助他呢？

]]> By: RicoBoby http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2765 RicoBoby Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:17:01 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2765 Happy reading Happy reading

]]> By: RicoBoby http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2764 RicoBoby Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:15:14 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2764 http://202.89.54.106/bbs/thread-128595-1-1.html http://202.89.54.106/bbs/thread-128595-1-1.html

]]> By: seamus http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2734 seamus Fri, 16 May 2008 02:48:21 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2734 Lee, I have now added screen shots covering most of the material I translated. Anyone who reads Chinese can now read for themselves (of course they could always find this material for themselves simply by looking on Sky Kiwi). Do you want to point out problems in my translation? Where have I 'misdirected people'? The posts in the first thread I translated are clearly violent. They threaten violence and they relish in doing so. Moderating voices are absent. As I already noted, the second thread is only a selective translation. As I already noted, I focused on the 'revenge' aspect. That said, I did not even translate every post threatening revenge. The second thread contains people threatening violence, and also more moderate voices that clearly taking those violent threats seriously. Meanwhile you have others (interestingly one of them possibly a journalist - i.e. the Guanny Liu who writes for Asian Today) distributing photos that are obviously likely to be used to line up an a pregnant woman for violent assault. I find the level of violent aggression a bit disturbing. What do you think about it? Lee, I have now added screen shots covering most of the material I translated. Anyone who reads Chinese can now read for themselves (of course they could always find this material for themselves simply by looking on Sky Kiwi).

Do you want to point out problems in my translation? Where have I ‘misdirected people’?

The posts in the first thread I translated are clearly violent. They threaten violence and they relish in doing so. Moderating voices are absent.

As I already noted, the second thread is only a selective translation. As I already noted, I focused on the ‘revenge’ aspect. That said, I did not even translate every post threatening revenge. The second thread contains people threatening violence, and also more moderate voices that clearly taking those violent threats seriously. Meanwhile you have others (interestingly one of them possibly a journalist – i.e. the Guanny Liu who writes for Asian Today) distributing photos that are obviously likely to be used to line up an a pregnant woman for violent assault.

I find the level of violent aggression a bit disturbing. What do you think about it?

]]> By: Lee http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2733 Lee Fri, 16 May 2008 01:30:39 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2733 "The complete lack of empathy for non-Chinese is strange. The poster J2Lane says “at least nobody got hurt”, then immediately talks about getting a better weapon. The message seems to be that it only matters when Chinese people get hurt. Non-Chinese must be dealt to severely." Well well, it seems that you finally catch a speck of mouse dung that spoiled a whole pot of porridge, good on you! Unfortunately, here are not only you can read Chinese, if you still can't understand "misdirect people", please check it out with someone who speaks better CHinese than you. By the way, do you eat with that mouth? “The complete lack of empathy for non-Chinese is strange. The poster J2Lane says “at least nobody got hurt”, then immediately talks about getting a better weapon. The message seems to be that it only matters when Chinese people get hurt. Non-Chinese must be dealt to severely.”

Well well, it seems that you finally catch a speck of mouse dung that spoiled a whole pot of porridge, good on you! Unfortunately, here are not only you can read Chinese, if you still can’t understand “misdirect people”, please check it out with someone who speaks better CHinese than you.
By the way, do you eat with that mouth?

]]> By: seamus http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2719 seamus Tue, 13 May 2008 07:48:56 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2719 Lee, instead of making yourself look stupid by calling me names, how about pointing out where my translation could have 'misdirected' people? Lee, instead of making yourself look stupid by calling me names, how about pointing out where my translation could have ‘misdirected’ people?

]]> By: Lee http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2718 Lee Tue, 13 May 2008 07:39:03 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2718 nice translation, your Chinese is better than English I will say, thanks for your effort in misdirecting people. Nazi! nice translation, your Chinese is better than English I will say, thanks for your effort in misdirecting people. Nazi!

]]> By: kevin http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2677 kevin Fri, 09 May 2008 22:20:48 +0000 http://bunnyhugs.org/2008/05/05/more-on-the-mcdonalds-incident/#comment-2677 seamus, i would like to describe you as a " pu ssy". you only pick on the minority in auckland to make your comments on. however, as i said in your previous post, nz local culture is disgusting (stealing, cheating, lying) look at your sick white culture--raping and murdering teenages, have sex with own daughters and caged her for twenty yrs. don't you think its disgusting? (you might feel its ok for your white culture, huh?) why don't you pick on those maori, island, white(pig) nationalities? i think you guys have more problems. seamus, i would like to describe you as a ” pu ssy”. you only pick on the minority in auckland to make your comments on. however, as i said in your previous post, nz local culture is disgusting (stealing, cheating, lying) look at your sick white culture–raping and murdering teenages, have sex with own daughters and caged her for twenty yrs. don’t you think its disgusting? (you might feel its ok for your white culture, huh?) why don’t you pick on those maori, island, white(pig) nationalities? i think you guys have more problems.

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